Thoughts on Christianity

[The D]

NOTE:: The guy who wrote this used to be a minister.

If God is everywhere, is he in hell?

This opens up a slew of contradictions. Either the Christian god is not omnipresent or he steps foot into the epitome of evil. This is not the only time we'd see god dancing with the devil. (see Job)

The problem with Hell is that God, assuming He exists, will be there, too. After all, He is omnipresent and is therefore everywhere. If he is not in Hell, he is not omnipresent, and that would blow a hole in the religious theory. Therefore,God is in Hell.


If evolution didn't/doesn't occur...

-Why are there different human races?
-Why are there worthless chunks of DNA (IE introns) in every organism's genome?
-Why do we have an appendix?
-Why do we have a third undeveloped eyelid (nictating membrane)?
-Why do we have a tail bone (caudal vertebrae of coccyx)?
-Why do we have gills in fetal development?
-Why do we have muscles in our nostrils and ears?
-Why do we have wisdom teeth?
-Why do we get goosebumps?
-Why are our eyes most attuned to see red objects on a green background?
-Why are we made (70%) of salt water and not dust? If we were made from clay, wouldn't we have dust particles? Or is it the fact that water is what is needed to keep out bodies healthy and hydrated, whereas if we were made from clay, out bodies would deteriorate when we swam or were hit by water
-Why doesn't penicillin work anymore?
-Why does the flu come back every year?
-Why are our retinas backwards?
-Why are our brains contralateral to our bodies?
-Why are there genetic defects?
-Why do species go extinct?
-Why do boa constrictors have hip bones and undeveloped hind legs?
-Why do manatees have fingernails on their fins?
-Why do baleen whales have pelvic bones?
-Animals are created before man in (Gen 1:25). The animals made on the 5th day and man on the 6th. However, God blatantly creates animals after man in (Gen 2:19). Because man was lonely, God said "I will make a suitable helper for him" and made the animals. No animals suited him, so Adam made Eve. The literal contradiction occurs with the words "God made" in all translations of the bible, except of course the newest ones which say "God had made". But the obvious logical contradiction remains. I checked the evil and discovered that this is even in the most recent ones.


Food for Thought:

1. Not even 1/3 of the Earth is Christian

2. There have been over 34,000 seperate Christian groups identified

3. Though they preach love and tolerance, they are the sole cause of crusades, inquisitions, witch trials, the KKK, Nazis, abortion clinic bombing, and suicidal cults.

5. In order to be a Christian you must love Satan-
-That's right, as Jesus commanded "love your enemies". Well if Satan isn't your enemy, you have bigger problems than loving him.

6. Jesus is actually based off Mithra.
-The story of a divine child being born of a virgin mother on December 25th, performing healings and resurrections, having 12 disciples (the signs of the zodiac), and having a last supper with flattened bread (which had crosses on them by the way to symbolize the sun) was all done a few thousand years before Jesus. Yes, Jesus is a rip-off of the Persian god of "light and truth" (those symbols Sound familiar?). Mithra makes Jesus look like a cheesy rerun. Look up Mithra yourself if you don't believe me.

7. The Christmas tree is pagan
-In order to convert pagan Germany into Christianity, Christians adopted their false god (trees) into the festival of Christmas. "See guys, we worship trees too". ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
-Interestingly enough, this custom is condemned by the bible in Jeremiah 10:1-5. "Do not learn the ways of the nations... they cut a tree out of the forest...they adorn it with silver and gold"

8. Christianity is on the decline
-Though the gross number may be increasing, the percentage per capita on Earth is rapidly declining. Never has it been so difficult to find priests and pastors to spread the word of God. It's no wonder missionary work is so popular these days- "Give us your worship and we'll give you some bread". Without a second thought, Ethiopia says "K!".

9. Humans are not the only sentient creatures.
-We think we are special because we have the capacity to think, reason, and realize that we are people. This is the Christian explanation of the mind- a soul. Unfortunately, many primate species and dolphins are also self-aware (IE with "theory of mind", self-recognition etc). So either we go to heaven with dolphins or we don't go anywhere. Which sounds more logical to you?

10. Hitler is in Heaven. Ghandi is in hell.
-According to the theory of "grace", a belief in Jesus is the only way to enter heaven. By this logic, Ghandi a major world-peace activist and pacifist is burning away in hell. Meanwhile, Hitler a believer in Jesus and killer of millions, rests happily next to God.

11. You don't need Jesus to go to heaven. You don't even need to believe in God. -In fact, Matthew 19:16-19 proves this "Blasphemous statement".
-16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired
19 Jesus replied, "Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, 'and 'love your neighbor as yourself."

As we all know according to Hebrew history, a cubit is the length of one's forearm. If you calculate the dimensions of the ark ([300cubits=450feet] x [50 cubits=75 feet] x 3 decks totaling 101,250 cubic ft), you see that it isn't even large enough to fit 40 days worth of food for all animals in the world, let alone all the animals themselves. Remember, there are MILLIONS of animal species in the animal kingdom (the hundreds of thousands of vertebrates make up only 1% of animals on earth). Assuming every animal took 1 inch of space, and you have at least 2 of each species, you still wouldn't have enough room. This also leaves room to ask, "Why did Christians think the animals of Australia were a hoax if there was already a previous knowledge of them?" (See: platypus) or "How can we still be discovering new species of animals?" And finally, if dinosaurs weren't carried on the ark, then Noah didn't fulfill the will of God. [IE, God told Noah to take EVERY animal on the Ark]

And

http://evilbible.com

[Sam]

Wow, an entire post filled with high school philosophy.  A lot of those are the kind of revelations you'd expect to hear from a group of teenagers getting high in their parents basement.

See also: The Matrix..  ("What if, like, everything we see is just an illusion?  I mean, imagine it, we could all be sitting in chairs somewhere with our minds hooked up to, like, computers or something.  Maybe none of this is real...")

[Extra Zero]

Hahaha, tell it like it is, Shelly!  Hey Doug, wanna take the red pill or the blue pill?  Both are suppositories, I may add...

[Rodent of Unusual Size]

I could probably find an article I read somewhere and just post it so I look smart.  You know, if I was an idiot with something to prove.

[Rama]

I never understood why Aethist have such a hard on for converting people to thier way of thinking. I mean what if you don't convert me am I going to Aethist Hell? Are you worried that my Soul might not go to Aethist Heaven if I believe in God? What a fucking waste of time.  

[Extra Zero]

I find being an agnostic is a far better choice, considering that it's not entirely pessimistic, and I don't have to worry about buying into any false prophets.

[Rodent of Unusual Size]

*sigh* I suppose I'll go ahead and nibble the bait.  If you want references, and I doubt you want to get that deeply in these particular waters, I'll provide them in a subsequent posting.  But you really should learn your stuff before parroting what some fool has said elsewhere.

NOTE:: The guy who wrote this used to be a minister.

Many of today's seminary students don't believe the Bible is accurate, that Jesus was not virgin born, the Trinity is a hoax, and numerous other fundamental Christian doctrines.  So the fact that he was never saved goes a long way to discredit his sincerity and doesn't impart any import at all.

If God is everywhere, is he in hell?

This opens up a slew of contradictions. Either the Christian god is not omnipresent or he steps foot into the epitome of evil. This is not the only time we'd see god dancing with the devil. (see Job)

The problem with Hell is that God, assuming He exists, will be there, too. After all, He is omnipresent and is therefore everywhere. If he is not in Hell, he is not omnipresent, and that would blow a hole in the religious theory. Therefore,God is in Hell.

A couple misconceptions:

1) "Omnipresence" is an attribute of God because He is transcendent over those things which He has created...in this case, time and space itself.  He's also not physically present in and about all things, since He's a spirit (which demolishes the pantheistic and animistic viewpoints on spirtuality).  He can and does withdraw His presence from those who reject Him, as it is against God's nature to force Himself where He is unwelcome.  Therefore, hell is exactly what the rejector chooses, as the very definition of hell is the absence of God and a place of punishment.  

2) Hell is not the domain of evil, but the only place left for the rejector.   Rejecting God causes the unbeliever to be faced with a problem of where to go.  Since the only place left where God is not is the lake of fire which was prepared for the devil and the fallen angels from time immemorial, that's the only place left for them to go.  

3)  God didn't "dance" with the devil in the book of Job, and its asinine to say so.  The devil, or Satan, which means "adversary", serves not only the agent for the non-God option for human free will, but an "accuser of the brethren", and as such as access to God's court but not His blessings.

Therefore, I've already defeated your argument.

If evolution didn't/doesn't occur...

-Why are there different human races?
-Why are there worthless chunks of DNA (IE introns) in every organism's genome?
-Why do we have an appendix?
-Why do we have a third undeveloped eyelid (nictating membrane)?
-Why do we have a tail bone (caudal vertebrae of coccyx)?
-Why do we have gills in fetal development?
-Why do we have muscles in our nostrils and ears?
-Why do we have wisdom teeth?
-Why do we get goosebumps?
-Why are our eyes most attuned to see red objects on a green background?
-Why are we made (70%) of salt water and not dust? If we were made from clay, wouldn't we have dust particles? Or is it the fact that water is what is needed to keep out bodies healthy and hydrated, whereas if we were made from clay, out bodies would deteriorate when we swam or were hit by water
-Why doesn't penicillin work anymore?
-Why does the flu come back every year?
-Why are our retinas backwards?
-Why are our brains contralateral to our bodies?
-Why are there genetic defects?
-Why do species go extinct?
-Why do boa constrictors have hip bones and undeveloped hind legs?
-Why do manatees have fingernails on their fins?
-Why do baleen whales have pelvic bones?
-Animals are created before man in (Gen 1:25). The animals made on the 5th day and man on the 6th. However, God blatantly creates animals after man in (Gen 2:19). Because man was lonely, God said "I will make a suitable helper for him" and made the animals. No animals suited him, so Adam made Eve. The literal contradiction occurs with the words "God made" in all translations of the bible, except of course the newest ones which say "God had made". But the obvious logical contradiction remains. I checked the evil and discovered that this is even in the most recent ones.

This one's easy.  Who said evolution didn't/doesn't exist?  It just isn't accountable for the origin of the universe, earth, or the myriad species residing thereon.  But if it was, it can't explain DNA at all...it's an encoded language with information on it that cannot possibly be the process of random protein combinations in a single case in 10 billion years, much less countless billions of cases in a much shorter span.  And as for why there are vestigial organs and structures and etc., I imagine even God is allowed to cut and paste.  And odd combinations of structures and their non-symmetry only serve as further evidence discounting evolution.

Some of those supposed evidences for evolution are a real laugh (if penicillin no longer works, why is it still prescribed?  And I'm sure not everyone has to have wisdom teeth pulled), but for those few which aren't, they still prove nothing.  And the Bible accounts for a lot of these "errors" with the explanation of the effects of the fall of mankind upon the rest of creation.  So things aren't exactly as they were at the end of the second chapter of Genesis.  One could argue, if anal enough, that evolution itself is a result of the fall.  Oh, and when you ask "the animals" were created before or after man, which ones are you talking about?  Bear in mind that Gen. 2 doesn't necessarily provide a chronology.

Food for Thought:

1. Not even 1/3 of the Earth is Christian

I doubt it's anywhere near that much.  This presupposes that each and every member of every so-called "Christian" church is actually saved.  "Many are called, and few are chosen," because those so called rejected the call or believed another gospel than that given in the Bible.

2. There have been over 34,000 seperate Christian groups identified

Again, I say "Christian" groups.

3. Though they preach love and tolerance, they are the sole cause of crusades, inquisitions, witch trials, the KKK, Nazis, abortion clinic bombing, and suicidal cults.

See above.  If you notice, none of those responsible are what I would classify as Christian fundamentalists...by which I mean people who take the whole Bible and it only as the rule for their faith.  And the fundamental law of the true Christian faith is love.  "By their fruits, ye shall know them"...I couldn't have said it better, myself.

5. In order to be a Christian you must love Satan-
-That's right, as Jesus commanded "love your enemies". Well if Satan isn't your enemy, you have bigger problems than loving him.

Maybe, except that Jesus was refering to one's fellow man in the sermon on the mount.  Read it yourself.

6. Jesus is actually based off Mithra.
-The story of a divine child being born of a virgin mother on December 25th, performing healings and resurrections, having 12 disciples (the signs of the zodiac), and having a last supper with flattened bread (which had crosses on them by the way to symbolize the sun) was all done a few thousand years before Jesus. Yes, Jesus is a rip-off of the Persian god of "light and truth" (those symbols Sound familiar?). Mithra makes Jesus look like a cheesy rerun. Look up Mithra yourself if you don't believe me.

You can go back to Babylonian mythology if you want to, since there you'll find the first picture of the madonna and child.  However, these were mystery religions...not everyone was privvy to their beliefs.  And the Bible also declares (and historical similarities bear it out) that Satan is the god of the world and has instituted his own religions, which a careful reading of the OT (and Revelation  in particular) will reveal is often a copy of the true faith.

It's only through fortunate archaeological finds that we know jack about Mithra.  But the fact remains that there are Roman and Jewish accounts of Jesus' deeds, death, and apparent resurrection, and that many records show that the belief that He was the Son of God was held from the very start of the Church.  The things He said and did are completely different from the accounts of the pagan charlatans.

7. The Christmas tree is pagan
-In order to convert pagan Germany into Christianity, Christians adopted their false god (trees) into the festival of Christmas. "See guys, we worship trees too". ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
-Interestingly enough, this custom is condemned by the bible in Jeremiah 10:1-5. "Do not learn the ways of the nations... they cut a tree out of the forest...they adorn it with silver and gold"

Exactly why Christmas actually shouldn't be celebrated, IMO...the whole THING is pagan!  In fact, Paul writes that Christians aren't to observe high or holy days.  But it's yet another instance where the Church wants to be in line with its worldly neighbors.  Then again, one reason I don't hold the Catholic church to be Christian is because of the degree of paganism it espouses...more pagan than Christian, in fact.

8. Christianity is on the decline
-Though the gross number may be increasing, the percentage per capita on Earth is rapidly declining. Never has it been so difficult to find priests and pastors to spread the word of God. It's no wonder missionary work is so popular these days- "Give us your worship and we'll give you some bread". Without a second thought, Ethiopia says "K!".

Which is no biggie, as one of the signs Jesus gave to His disciples of the last times is a little thing called "apostacy".

9. Humans are not the only sentient creatures.
-We think we are special because we have the capacity to think, reason, and realize that we are people. This is the Christian explanation of the mind- a soul. Unfortunately, many primate species and dolphins are also self-aware (IE with "theory of mind", self-recognition etc). So either we go to heaven with dolphins or we don't go anywhere. Which sounds more logical to you?

Sentience != mind != eternal soul.  Man is a spiritual being.  Animals are not.  All dogs do not go to heaven.

10. Hitler is in Heaven. Ghandi is in hell.
-According to the theory of "grace", a belief in Jesus is the only way to enter heaven. By this logic, Ghandi a major world-peace activist and pacifist is burning away in hell. Meanwhile, Hitler a believer in Jesus and killer of millions, rests happily next to God.

More whacked out Catholicism for you.  Hitler, in good standing with the Church, still has a chance, except for the little thing of pergatory, if it even existed.  In actually, Hitler and Ghandi both went to hell for the same reason.

11. You don't need Jesus to go to heaven. You don't even need to believe in God. -In fact, Matthew 19:16-19 proves this "Blasphemous statement".
-16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired
19 Jesus replied, "Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, 'and 'love your neighbor as yourself."

Again, this "minister" shows his ignorance.  Who has ever followed the commandments perfectly?  No one but Jesus.  And His work on the cross makes up for the fact that people are imperfect and "imputes" His righteousness to the believer.  So, yes, you still need Him.

As we all know according to Hebrew history, a cubit is the length of one's forearm. If you calculate the dimensions of the ark ([300cubits=450feet] x [50 cubits=75 feet] x 3 decks totaling 101,250 cubic ft), you see that it isn't even large enough to fit 40 days worth of food for all animals in the world, let alone all the animals themselves. Remember, there are MILLIONS of animal species in the animal kingdom (the hundreds of thousands of vertebrates make up only 1% of animals on earth). Assuming every animal took 1 inch of space, and you have at least 2 of each species, you still wouldn't have enough room. This also leaves room to ask, "Why did Christians think the animals of Australia were a hoax if there was already a previous knowledge of them?" (See: platypus) or "How can we still be discovering new species of animals?" And finally, if dinosaurs weren't carried on the ark, then Noah didn't fulfill the will of God. [IE, God told Noah to take EVERY animal on the Ark]

Laying aside the typical arguments of animal hibernation due to temperatures and low lighting and the fact that many can go a while without much food (and there was plenty of water!) and how taking sevens and twos of every kind does not necessarily mean species; one of the overriding themes of the Bible is God's provision.  If a God would give a blueprint for a giant flood He was planning 120 years in advance, would He not make some way of ensuring survival, as He did with the wandering nation of Israel in the OT?  

Anyway, that was fun, if a bit trivial.

[Bitch]

The thing about evolution that there's so much controversy over isn't evolution itself. You can watch bacteria evolve through a microscope. What people are in a big snit about is actually specieization - that is, the belief that animals adapt to their envoronments and circumstances and evolve accordingly. And even then, people tend to make mistakes - saying that humans evolved from apes, when the theory, and it really is only that, is that humans and apes share a common ancestor and that there were different circumstances that caused each particular evolution.

Really, there is no difference between science and religion. The only thing that is remotedly different about science is the fact that it's constantly changing as evidence is gathered, rather than hanging rather stubbornly onto one set of beliefs.

[Wickedly Yours E]

I just don't care.

[Bitch]

Best arguement ever.

[The D]

*sigh* I suppose I'll go ahead and nibble the bait.  If you want references, and I doubt you want to get that deeply in these particular waters, I'll provide them in a subsequent posting.  But you really should learn your stuff before parroting what some fool has said elsewhere.
 

I actually read all of Squirrel's post. Amazing. And while reading it, I sensed he had a Christian bias, which is why I question his answers.

1) "Omnipresence" is an attribute of God because He is transcendent over those things which He has created...in this case, time and space itself.  He's also not physically present in and about all things, since He's a spirit (which demolishes the pantheistic and animistic viewpoints on spirtuality).  He can and does withdraw His presence from those who reject Him, as it is against God's nature to force Himself where He is unwelcome.  Therefore, hell is exactly what the rejector chooses, as the very definition of hell is the absence of God and a place of punishment. 

So, you're saying that those people who don't believe in God or Jesus because they were raised in a different religion, or they're atheist, should go to Hell? Because they rejected God?

First off, If God really exists (and this is not provable unless something like my sig happens), I find it hard to believe that just because someone doesn't believe in him, he's rejecting him, or even hates him. How can you reject something you don't even believe in? It's not like the non-believers are saying "Fuck you god, I don't want you." THEY JUST DON'T BELIEVE. And if they die, I don't see why they can't go to heaven, because it's not like they can't stand God's presence, they just didn't believe he existed until then. You can go to Heaven not believing, be proven wrong and find out God really does exist, and then love him.

You fail.

This one's easy.  Who said evolution didn't/doesn't exist?  It just isn't accountable for the origin of the universe, earth, or the myriad species residing thereon.  But if it was, it can't explain DNA at all...it's an encoded language with information on it that cannot possibly be the process of random protein combinations in a single case in 10 billion years, much less countless billions of cases in a much shorter span.  And as for why there are vestigial organs and structures and etc., I imagine even God is allowed to cut and paste.  And odd combinations of structures and their non-symmetry only serve as further evidence discounting evolution.

This reeks of the argument of a Creationist or a Intellgent Design believer, or as I like to call them, IDiots. "There's no way evolution could have created DNA. Evolution doesn't explain the origin of the universe (who said it did?). Vistigial organs are God's mistake." Stop making lame excuses.

You can go back to Babylonian mythology if you want to, since there you'll find the first picture of the madonna and child.  However, these were mystery religions...not everyone was privvy to their beliefs.  And the Bible also declares (and historical similarities bear it out) that Satan is the god of the world and has instituted his own religions, which a careful reading of the OT (and Revelation  in particular) will reveal is often a copy of the true faith.

Oh, so all those religions that came before were created by Satan to decieve man? Ha, good one. Got any proof of that?

Did you know that the Hebrew law and 10 Commandments that Moses created were based off the code of hammurabi, and that there were bablyonian legends of a Flood and Ark way way before the bible was even thought up?

It's only through fortunate archaeological finds that we know jack about Mithra.  But the fact remains that there are Roman and Jewish accounts of Jesus' deeds, death, and apparent resurrection, and that many records show that the belief that He was the Son of God was held from the very start of the Church.  The things He said and did are completely different from the accounts of the pagan charlatans.

You have any proof of those "Roman records?"

Exactly why Christmas actually shouldn't be celebrated, IMO...the whole THING is pagan!  In fact, Paul writes that Christians aren't to observe high or holy days.  But it's yet another instance where the Church wants to be in line with its worldly neighbors.  Then again, one reason I don't hold the Catholic church to be Christian is because of the degree of paganism it espouses...more pagan than Christian, in fact.

So, even though Christmas is now to celebrate the birth of Jesus, it shouldn't be celebrated? And the Catholic church is wrong and not Christian. Oh that's good. That's great. I don't like the Catholic church, but I still consider them Christian. And I think you're an idiot for saying Christmas should be abandoned. Keep sticking your foot down your mouth, please.

[More whacked out Catholicism for you.  Hitler, in good standing with the Church, still has a chance, except for the little thing of pergatory, if it even existed.  In actually, Hitler and Ghandi both went to hell for the same reason.

I assume it's not because the first one was a mass murderer, and the other one was someone who wanted world peace. I assume it's because they're not true Christians. I don't care if Hitler goes to hell or not, but the fact you think Ghandi went to hell even though he loved peace proves what a dumbfuck you are. With all Ghandi did, I'm sure he'd go to heaven.

[Laying aside the typical arguments of animal hibernation due to temperatures and low lighting and the fact that many can go a while without much food (and there was plenty of water!) and how taking sevens and twos of every kind does not necessarily mean species; one of the overriding themes of the Bible is God's provision.  If a God would give a blueprint for a giant flood He was planning 120 years in advance, would He not make some way of ensuring survival, as He did with the wandering nation of Israel in the OT? 

Allowing for the fact that some of the billions of animals and plants out there could survive a flood by swimming or hiding underground, there's still no way you could take all the animals that needed dry land and fit them on an Ark, unless it was by a Godly powet. And if that's the case, why did God give the entire task to one man that wouldn't even be able to do it by himself, and even give him dimensions for the ark that were way too small?



I'm sorry, but every single one of your arguments are religiously biased. I'll admit that I did copy this directly from a forum, so some of them might be wrong, but the idea is to get you to think, not for you to wave around your biased and crooked religious beliefs. Sorry, your arguments fail horribly.

[IDE]

I've been reading the old testament while on the shitter recently.  Old Testament God is a RAW ASS MOTHERFUCKER! He would fuck you up just as soon as look at you if you don't obey and fear him.  He got angry. He fucked shit up hardcore. Then he realized what he did was wrong and promised not to do it again.

This is a God I can identify with.

I was definitely made in his image.

[B E C K]

The first thing I wondered when I saw this thread is why the hell anyone would need to hear "Thoughts on Christianity" from Doug, regurgitated or otherwise.  

[TM2 Rampage]

Best arguement ever.

I didn't read the whole topic, but I bet it could all be argued with

"The Lord works in mysterious ways."

[B E C K]

Or in the case of Doug, not at all.

[Extra Zero]

Pretty much.

[Wickedly Yours E]

Doug, you have the argumentative skills of a rotting piece of wood.  Why do you even bother?  It's like....like Macaws or parrots. SUre they can speak a few words here or there, but they really just don't know what they're saying.

[Faye Valentine]

I can't believe you all read what was in this thread. I didn't read anything.

[IDE]

I can't believe you all read what was in this thread. I didn't read anything.

Go back and read doug's rebuttals to squirrel.  I found them highly amusing.

[Extra Zero]

Me too...

Hey DS, you should introduce Doug to Kalidor.

[Rodent of Unusual Size]

As did I.  

I actually read all of Squirrel's post. Amazing. And while reading it, I sensed he had a Christian bias, which is why I question his answers.

The "you're biased!" means jack squat.  Of course I am.  If I weren't, I wouldn't have bothered responding.  And, dude...listen to yourself.  Answer this: are you NOT biased?  My Shwiggie Sense[dohtml]™[/dohtml] tells me that you have "antiChristian bias"...but what bearing does this have on anything?  In any case, good luck finding anyone who isn't and is still willing to discuss it at any length.  It's even harder than finding someone willing to discuss anything with you at all.

Also, do you present anything that remotely contradicts what I presented?  No, you don't.  So quit pretending you know anything about the subject aside from "well, it's MY OPINION!"  

So, you're saying that those people who don't believe in God or Jesus because they were raised in a different religion, or they're atheist, should go to Hell? Because they rejected God?

First off, If God really exists (and this is not provable unless something like my sig happens), I find it hard to believe that just because someone doesn't believe in him, he's rejecting him, or even hates him. How can you reject something you don't even believe in? It's not like the non-believers are saying "Fuck you god, I don't want you." THEY JUST DON'T BELIEVE. And if they die, I don't see why they can't go to heaven, because it's not like they can't stand God's presence, they just didn't believe he existed until then. You can go to Heaven not believing, be proven wrong and find out God really does exist, and then love him.

You fail.

First, what constitutes a Christian is not for you to decide, but for Christ (for your benefit, I'll couple that with "whoever made up the Bible").  Why should God not set standards for entrance into His heaven?  And why should He go out of His way to force you to believe on Him?  I'm willing to bet that, if He did do the booming voice from the sky thing, you'd probably still not turn to Him in love.  You've already told yourself that the universe is happenstance and attributable to natural causes, so what's the difference?  You've already decided "fuck God, I'll do as I please, to hell with the Church and that obey stuff."  So that argument of yours is nullified.

Who fails?

This reeks of the argument of a Creationist or a Intellgent Design believer, or as I like to call them, IDiots. "There's no way evolution could have created DNA. Evolution doesn't explain the origin of the universe (who said it did?). Vistigial organs are God's mistake." Stop making lame excuses.

You calling anyone else an idiot is of great hilarity.  Nice one!    There is currently NO reasonable explanation for the initiation and advanced development of DNA in evolutionary theory (theology?).  Also, you can prove evolution no more than you can "God done it", so it's no more fantastical to believe that.  And I NEVER said vestigial organs are a mistake on God's part.

Oh, so all those religions that came before were created by Satan to decieve man? Ha, good one. Got any proof of that?

Did you know that the Hebrew law and 10 Commandments that Moses created were based off the code of hammurabi, and that there were bablyonian legends of a Flood and Ark way way before the bible was even thought up?

Got any proof that it wasn't?  The uniformity of it across almost every culture and in every region lends credence to this concept.  Or it could be due to the system being true.  THEN you can come in and pick it apart and ask why it doesn't mesh.

As for the origin of the Ten Commandments, did you know that it doesn't matter that the Code of Hammurabi predates it?  The Bible says in Romans 2:15 that Gentiles (non-Jews who weren't given the commandments) have a "law written in their hearts", which is natural law...that underlie the basic morality of all people.

You have any proof of those "Roman records?"

Letters written by Gentiles, such as Thallus, Mara Bar-Serapion, Tacitus, Pliny, Suetonius also survive, and they portray Jesus as a historical figure.  The Jewish historian Josephus wrote an account that regards Jesus as a historical figure who did great works (though said to be the work of a later Christian revision, this has never been proven to be any more than speculation).  Then there's also the fact that neither the Jews nor the Romans could prove the early Christians in error...it's one thing to contest ancient theologies, but more so to combat something done before the very eyes of hundreds of people.

I leave reading them as an exercise for you.

So, even though Christmas is now to celebrate the birth of Jesus, it shouldn't be celebrated? And the Catholic church is wrong and not Christian. Oh that's good. That's great. I don't like the Catholic church, but I still consider them Christian. And I think you're an idiot for saying Christmas should be abandoned. Keep sticking your foot down your mouth, please.

You apparently don't realize that we've moved headlong into personal opinion and interpretation.  Frankly, I don't care that you don't share my opinion...it only makes it more right in my eyes that you disagree.  You certainly provide no rational reasons for me to re-evaluate it.  As for my abandonment statement, Christmas has no real religious value to me personally...the only reason I went to church on Christmas this year was because it fell on a Sunday.  Just to shock the rest of the crap out of you, I'm not big on Easter either, but the fact that it's not so commercialized (but is creeping up there) makes it easier for me to ignore.

And since we're back to insults, just keep sticking your head up your ass, please.  Everybody else has held you to be an idiot long ago, so I'm not sure what weight the whining of a pedophilic shaven monkey could possibly carry with anyone.

I assume it's not because the first one was a mass murderer, and the other one was someone who wanted world peace. I assume it's because they're not true Christians. I don't care if Hitler goes to hell or not, but the fact you think Ghandi went to hell even though he loved peace proves what a dumbfuck you are. With all Ghandi did, I'm sure he'd go to heaven.

Hitler's status as a mass murderer only reflects his heart...even the dumbest nonreligious person knows that Christians aren't supposed to act like that.  I can't judge one's relationship with God, but I can look at the person and tell you what I see...and I see a man who was ripe for hell.  As for Ghandi, he staked his eternal future on Hinduism (or his peculiar brand of it), which is a path to something but it sure isn't God's heaven.

And seeing as you sensed that I have a Christian bias, you should realize that I believe it doesn't matter what religion you hold to when it comes to heaven.  Loving your peace doesn't mean a thing when you have turned your back to God's peace.  Anyone who measures their holiness by the things they've done is indicative of one who does not trust God for their own salvation.

"Dumbfuck"?  Me?  For a quick and easy example of the validity of this statement, to one of you conscientious observers, please contrast our spelling and use of grammar.  Please, and thank you.

Allowing for the fact that some of the billions of animals and plants out there could survive a flood by swimming or hiding underground, there's still no way you could take all the animals that needed dry land and fit them on an Ark, unless it was by a Godly powet. And if that's the case, why did God give the entire task to one man that wouldn't even be able to do it by himself, and even give him dimensions for the ark that were way too small?

"unless it was by a Godly powet" is a pretty good start.  You're learning!  Here's one that'll cook your brain:  he gathered up all the animals and food and built the ark, too!  How did this ever happen?  Genesis 6:20 says "fowls...cattle...every creeping thing...shall come unto thee."  So Noah did no gathering of animals.  For particular arguments concerning the Ark that you can take or leave, chell here (beware, they have Christian bias!).

I'm sorry, but every single one of your arguments are religiously biased. I'll admit that I did copy this directly from a forum, so some of them might be wrong, but the idea is to get you to think, not for you to wave around your biased and crooked religious beliefs. Sorry, your arguments fail horribly.

You should be sorry.  You posted this to attack Christianity before a crowd you didn't think would take it up, and lo and behold somebody called you on it.  I've competently and completely addressed your attacks, and like with other topics, you're weighed in the scales and found wanting.  So find another subject to bleat about, because you are obviously incapable of doing anything beyond cut and paste with regards to this one.

[IDE]

That "there not being enough space on the ark" argument is total crap.  Even The Weasley's have a tent that looks small on the outside but is spacious and luxurious on the inside and they are considered to not be well off financially in the wizarding community.  So I'm sure Noah who had God's backing probably had something similar, nay much better, that most likely included air conditioning and whatever passed for playstation back then.

[Wickedly Yours E]

......Holy Jesus Magnolias this thread is kinky good fun, wot?

[Bernie]

Maybe Noah was one of Doctor Who's early incarnations and the ark was a big old Tardis.  

I keep running into "Christians" very much like the woman in the following:

An Observant Policeman


An honest man was being tailgated by a stressed out woman on a busy
boulevard. Suddenly, the light turned yellow, just in front of him.  He did the right thing, stopping at the crosswalk, even though he could have beaten the red light by accelerating through the intersection.

The tailgating woman hit the roof, and the horn, screaming in frustration
as she missed her chance to get through the intersection, dropping her cell
phone and makeup.

As she was still in mid-rant, she heard a tap on her window and looked up
into the face of a very serious police officer.

The officer ordered her to exit her car with her hands up. He took her to
the police station where she was searched, finger printed, photographed,
and placed in a holding cell.

After a couple of hours, a policeman approached the cell and opened the
door.  She was escorted back to the booking desk where the arresting officer was
waiting with her personal effects.

He said, "I'm very sorry for this mistake. You see, I pulled up behind your
car while you were blowing your horn, flipping off the guy in front of you,
and cussing a blue streak at him.

"I noticed the 'Choose Life' license plate holder, the 'What Would Jesus
Do' bumper sticker, the 'Follow Me to Sunday-School' bumper sticker, and
the chrome-plated Christian Fish emblem on the trunk.

Naturally... I assumed you had stolen the car."

And then there was my dad, who gave most of his breakfast every morning to the children digging through the Marine camp garbage in the Phillipines for food, got 2 bronze stars for pulling his bunkmates out of a shelled tent (and was the only survivor twice), and never swore once in my earshot that I can remember.   Very human; got mad plenty of times and wasn't perfect, but never tried to pretend he was.  He just kept that "do unto others" concept his priority.  That's my standard for the meaning of Christian, and the one I try, pretty miserably most of the time, to meet.




 

[B E C K]

That "there not being enough space on the ark" argument is total crap. Even The Weasley's have a tent...

LMAO!!!  God = Harry Potter.  Awesome!  

I can't believe you all read what was in this thread. I didn't read anything.

I didn't read anything of Doug's and very little of Shwiggie's, since it had so much of Doug's.

[Rama]

Maybe Noah was one of Doctor Who's early incarnations and the ark was a big old Tardis.  
 

LOL!!! Maybe it just got stuck on "Ark".  

[tomduo]

Hitler was atheistic.

[Rama]

But was obessed with the "Spear of Destiny." The Irony.  

[tomduo]

True, but then he didn't believe in Jesus, he was more in tune with Germanic myths, and the Lance of Longinius was very akin to Odin's spear Grungir.

[IDE]

It's a good thing hitler didn't know about NERV.