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Faye Valentine

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« Reply #60 on: Nov 06, 2004, 08:15:05 AM »
yay! gay pr0n!

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« Reply #61 on: Nov 07, 2004, 03:00:27 PM »
Quote
I'm not picking on Sam or anyone against abortion.  I still go back to my original question from weeks ago - what are those against abortion doing to assist unwanted children other than making sure they get here?  Maybe part of why I'm pro-choice is that I don't feel that I have the right to roll the dice with another human being's quality of life.  Is a bad life better than a pre-existence death, which I also consider giving the soul passage back to its maker?  I don't think so, and THAT is the basis for my stance. 

Personally, I think everyone who protests outside a clinic should be leaving with an "unadoptable" (i.e., crack, AIDS, special needs, or untrendy minority) baby to raise.
I know my church, and many others, run many charities.  Orphanages, counseling and aid for unwed mothers, collecting and providing food, clothing and shelter for those that need it, but that's really beside the point.

My stance basically boils down to my belief that it's not fair to put the discomfort of one person (ok, the agony, with the childbirth) above the death of another.  Especially when that death is of someone that is the height of innocence.  

And, excuse the phrase, but I don't feel it's our place to "play God", deciding who gets to live and who doesn't.  Is death better than a bad life?  I don't know, and I don't think I, or anyone else is in the position to decide that for another person.

But, if you don't believe the fetus is alive, then my argument is meaningless, which is really where the real debate lay.

That being said, I think I'm taking a vacation from this board for a while.  At least until this election year shit has passed.
« Last Edit: Nov 07, 2004, 03:03:26 PM by shellspark »

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« Reply #62 on: Nov 07, 2004, 03:53:27 PM »
Quote
Quote
I'm not picking on Sam or anyone against abortion.  I still go back to my original question from weeks ago - what are those against abortion doing to assist unwanted children other than making sure they get here?  Maybe part of why I'm pro-choice is that I don't feel that I have the right to roll the dice with another human being's quality of life.  Is a bad life better than a pre-existence death, which I also consider giving the soul passage back to its maker?  I don't think so, and THAT is the basis for my stance. 

Personally, I think everyone who protests outside a clinic should be leaving with an "unadoptable" (i.e., crack, AIDS, special needs, or untrendy minority) baby to raise.
I know my church, and many others, run many charities.  Orphanages, counseling and aid for unwed mothers, collecting and providing food, clothing and shelter for those that need it, but that's really beside the point.

My stance basically boils down to my belief that it's not fair to put the discomfort of one person (ok, the agony, with the childbirth) above the death of another.  Especially when that death is of someone that is the height of innocence.  

And, excuse the phrase, but I don't feel it's our place to "play God", deciding who gets to live and who doesn't.  Is death better than a bad life?  I don't know, and I don't think I, or anyone else is in the position to decide that for another person.

But, if you don't believe the fetus is alive, then my argument is meaningless, which is really where the real debate lay.

That being said, I think I'm taking a vacation from this board for a while.  At least until this election year shit has passed.
There is a bond between mother and child. It can't be broken, and forms, and even if it's a bad situation, the hormones call the mother to do wierd things. Since you're not a mother, nor am I, we have no right to judge someone's feelings. What you want to do is the same, just because some cells get killed doesn't matter. If God decrees it bad, then he can punish the person. But don't go by the bible or 'religion', cuz then you're being obtuse.

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« Reply #63 on: Nov 07, 2004, 04:13:51 PM »
You can't legislate morals.

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« Reply #64 on: Nov 07, 2004, 04:38:23 PM »
Especially when morals are proven wrong.

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« Reply #65 on: Nov 07, 2004, 09:14:51 PM »
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And, excuse the phrase, but I don't feel it's our place to "play God", deciding who gets to live and who doesn't.
Deciding everyone has to live is still playing God.

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« Reply #66 on: Nov 07, 2004, 09:39:37 PM »
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240

Quote
NEW YORK - Here’s an interesting little sidebar of our system of government confirmed recently by the crack Countdown research staff: no Presidential candidate’s concession speech is legally binding. The only determinants of the outcome of election are the reports of the state returns boards and the vote of the Electoral College.

That’s right. Richard Nixon may have phoned John Kennedy in November, 1960, and congratulated him through clenched teeth. But if the FBI had burst into Kennedy headquarters in Chicago a week later and walked out with all the file cabinets and a bunch of employees with their raincoats drawn up over their heads, nothing Nixon had said would’ve prevented him, and not JFK, from taking the oath of office the following January.

This is mentioned because there is a small but blood-curdling set of news stories that right now exists somewhere between the world of investigative journalism, and the world of the Reynolds Wrap Hat. And while the group’s ultimate home remains unclear - so might our election of just a week ago.

Stories like these have filled the web since the tide turned against John Kerry late Tuesday night. But not until Friday did they begin to spill into the more conventional news media. That’s when the Cincinnati Enquirer reported that officials in Warren County, Ohio, had “locked down” its administration building to prevent anybody from observing the vote count there.

Gotcha. Tom Ridge thought Osama Bin Laden was planning to hit Caesar Creek State Park in Waynesville. During the vote count in Lebanon. Or maybe it was Kings Island Amusement Park that had gone Code-Orange without telling anybody. Al-Qaeda had selected Turtlecreek Township for its first foray into a Red State.

More in the article.

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« Reply #67 on: Nov 07, 2004, 10:35:07 PM »
I'm not getting my hopes up.

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« Reply #68 on: Nov 08, 2004, 01:44:19 PM »
It's funny, the whole abortion debate.

Abortion has only been morally wrong for the past 200 years or not even that. Before, women would secretly use contraceptives and even have natural abortions using herbs or forced labor.

Why? Necessity.

If you're a poor farm phesant, you can't afford to have a lot of kids, so you have to either decide to keep the kid and starve, or get rid of it. And oh so many people aborted the fetus, or tried to, rather than have yet another mouth to feed. It was necessary.

As I've already mentioned, Romans chucked their unwanted babies in the trash. What would you rather have, safe abortions, or unsafe abortions and infacide?

The whole abortion debate is moot anyway. Once you get the government to ban abortion and regulate marrage, what will they regulate next? The air you breathe? When will it get to the point where the big G will regulate everything and it will look Orwellian around here?
I like to go down to the playground and watch the kids run and jump and scream, because they don't know I'm only using blanks.

Modern anime is a stagnant cesspool of regurgitated ideas.

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« Reply #69 on: Nov 08, 2004, 02:40:29 PM »
Exactly. People don't get that banning something doesn't stop it. Education is the only thing that stops it. Murder's been illegal for how long?

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« Reply #70 on: Nov 08, 2004, 09:45:13 PM »
Quote
Quote
I'm not picking on Sam or anyone against abortion.  I still go back to my original question from weeks ago - what are those against abortion doing to assist unwanted children other than making sure they get here?  Maybe part of why I'm pro-choice is that I don't feel that I have the right to roll the dice with another human being's quality of life.  Is a bad life better than a pre-existence death, which I also consider giving the soul passage back to its maker?  I don't think so, and THAT is the basis for my stance. 

Personally, I think everyone who protests outside a clinic should be leaving with an "unadoptable" (i.e., crack, AIDS, special needs, or untrendy minority) baby to raise.
I know my church, and many others, run many charities.  Orphanages, counseling and aid for unwed mothers, collecting and providing food, clothing and shelter for those that need it, but that's really beside the point.

My stance basically boils down to my belief that it's not fair to put the discomfort of one person (ok, the agony, with the childbirth) above the death of another.  Especially when that death is of someone that is the height of innocence.  

And, excuse the phrase, but I don't feel it's our place to "play God", deciding who gets to live and who doesn't.  Is death better than a bad life?  I don't know, and I don't think I, or anyone else is in the position to decide that for another person.

But, if you don't believe the fetus is alive, then my argument is meaningless, which is really where the real debate lay.

 
AMEN!

Quote
That being said, I think I'm taking a vacation from this board for a while.  At least until this election year shit has passed.
awww noooo, damnit!  :(

 

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« Reply #71 on: Nov 09, 2004, 01:50:08 AM »
The air you breathe is regulated.

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« Reply #72 on: Nov 09, 2004, 07:54:16 AM »
And not very well!

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« Reply #73 on: Nov 09, 2004, 08:38:47 AM »
No, Sam, don't go.  I was going to bring up the wonderful job some of our local churches do, most of them Catholic, in supporting women with unwanted pregnancies.  Nice to see some establishments walking the walk for a change.

Please understand that I grew up during a time of what looked like endless possiblilty for women.  That's turned out to be a crock as social pressures want to inexorably shove us back into being nothing more that ambulatory incubators, and we'd damn well better learn to shut up and like it, whether we like it or not.  There are other kinds of death than physical; however, this society places primary value on youth.  As soon as a woman becomes pregnant, her value, desires, ambitions, hopes, etc.  become secondary to the almighty zygote.  Don't believe me?  Already in Arkansas, a law is on the books giving all pregnant women free medical care.  

I was always taught not to do something that would create a problem before I had my previous problems solved, if I could help it.  Where will all of the forced birth kids go to school, considering that public school overcrowding is near epidemic in metro areas?  Who takes care of them while their mothers work 2 or 3 minimum-wage jobs because the babydaddy couldn't be bothered to stick around?  With more and more entry-level jobs being outsourced, qualifications will become higher for the jobs that are left - who's going to hire all these kids?  Maybe things are better elsewhere, but here in the heart of Dubya Country, an MBA qualifies one to manage a Pizza Hut.

Adoption, you say?  There's another problem.  The screening process for adoption includes extremely intrusive background investigations.  I've been on medication to regulate chemical depression for over 10 years and couldn't adopt if I wanted to, PLUS the fee is anywhere from $10,000 to $25,000, depending on the age & "desirablilty" of what one wants to adopt.  White infants are consider the top prize, with older black & latino kids being the cheapest.  Why go through all of that when one can make a little replicant with IVF treatment paid for by one's insurance company at an average of $62,000 per couple??  Besides, society still sees adopting children as "settling" for something lesser - I still haven't figured that out.

Make adoption easier and less expensive, cut benefits for IVF & fertility drugs, and I'll start backing off.  That's an immediate band-aid that will hold for a little while. The job & school problem will take at least another full generation, longer if we have another baby boom.

And Doug's absolutely right - it's going to be made illegal, so I think everyone here who's anti-choice should be happy.  Eddie & I are taking our personal responsibility by ending our chances of reproduction for good, so that's one couple who won't be adding to the problem.  Anyone who wants kids, great - I ask only 3 things:

1) Don't breed what you can't feed
2) Realize the job is FOREVER.  
3) Realize that your primary responsibility is to instruct & guide this small being toward successful participation in adult society, just like every other animal on the planet, so BE a fucking PARENT, not a buddy.

There - end of rant.
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« Reply #74 on: Nov 09, 2004, 10:23:57 PM »
Jesus crap.
Call me..... the Tide Hunter

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« Reply #75 on: Nov 09, 2004, 10:37:09 PM »
:lol:  It's like I've always said, if I had the choice I would be easily tempted to go back in time and have myself aborted.  I pretty much agree with Bernie on all on her points.  Old people getting the shaft is pretty damn sad.  THEY should have free medical care, not some knocked up whore.

That reminds me, this movie's coming about an abortionist called "Vera Drake".  I didn't even know it was about an abortionist until I read a review in the local alternative newspaper.  Stupid tv previews.

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« Reply #76 on: Nov 10, 2004, 12:19:22 PM »
No opinions were personal attacks, Sam, and I think we're vented out.  C'mon back?  :huh:  
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Of all the pains, the greatest pain
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« Reply #77 on: Nov 11, 2004, 12:08:25 AM »
He'll be back eventually.  Give him plenty of time and water his plants while he's gone.

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« Reply #78 on: Nov 11, 2004, 02:10:36 AM »
Or just say "fuck him". That oughtta work as well as anything else.
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« Reply #79 on: Nov 11, 2004, 02:42:01 AM »
I'll pass.

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« Reply #80 on: Nov 11, 2004, 09:58:42 AM »
You'll pass fucking anybody.
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« Reply #81 on: Nov 11, 2004, 11:13:11 AM »
I hate driving sometimes...

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« Reply #82 on: Nov 11, 2004, 12:42:13 PM »
love you sam-on-the-bone, dont gooo

Quote
Adoption, you say? There's another problem. The screening process for adoption includes extremely intrusive background investigations. I've been on medication to regulate chemical depression for over 10 years and couldn't adopt if I wanted to, PLUS the fee is anywhere from $10,000 to $25,000, depending on the age & "desirablilty" of what one wants to adopt. White infants are consider the top prize, with older black & latino kids being the cheapest. Why go through all of that when one can make a little replicant with IVF treatment paid for by one's insurance company at an average of $62,000 per couple?? Besides, society still sees adopting children as "settling" for something lesser - I still haven't figured that out.

Yea this bothers me as well, id surely get my application chucked once they found out im trans, not to mention id probably be in a gay relationship which some states wont even allow to adopt a child, though my partner could as a single....
whatever thats still many years off, but Id still like the chance to help shape a little human.
I certainly think Id be a good mommy.

I doubt I could ever afford to adopt, only rich well-to-do people could afford to at that rate, and i dont think ill be accepted in any high paying jobs in my lifetime, but hey i dont care about having lots and lots of money.
I just want myself and everyone else to be happy and comfortable.
I dont see adoption as settling, i dont think I would want to burden another human with my genetic makeup even if i wasnt sterile.

I think it would be pretty cool to have a little latino son btw
 

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« Reply #83 on: Nov 11, 2004, 01:24:42 PM »
I always wanted to wait for a good dark-skinned woman to have children with, just to de-white my family. But things don't work out that way, it turns out.  :rolleyes: You have to fall in love with a trashy blonde.
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« Reply #84 on: Nov 11, 2004, 03:21:36 PM »
I have an ancestor from India.  Apparently she was passed off as Caucasian by her English husband , which I had always thought was bullshit until someone from India told me that many people from Northern India have blue-grey eyes, and she was from around Kashmir.  
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« Reply #85 on: Nov 11, 2004, 05:18:19 PM »
*nods* they are the Sikhs I believe. One of my all time favorite models, Sunny Leone is a Sikh. HOT.

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« Reply #86 on: Nov 11, 2004, 10:57:46 PM »
There's always paint, Meg.


And post some pictures, Tom.

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« Reply #87 on: Nov 11, 2004, 11:52:38 PM »
Get a little closer let it fold
Cut open my sternum and pull
My little ribs around you

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« Reply #88 on: Nov 12, 2004, 12:26:01 AM »
THAT IS HER!

Too bad all Indian chicks don't look like her. Still, Kary is better.

But I swear, when she was on Howard Stern, talking about her first time with two girls...

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« Reply #89 on: Nov 13, 2004, 12:17:15 AM »
Quote
THAT IS HER!

Too bad all Indian chicks don't look like her. Still, Kary is better.

But I swear, when she was on Howard Stern, talking about her first time with two girls...
When people say 'Model' I expect something more along the lines of runway or some form of models who keep at least 5-15% of their clothes on.
Get a little closer let it fold
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My little ribs around you