Hey Squirrel...

[Bernie AKA]

I thought my darling cousin had an interesting take on the subject, and asked if I could quote him.  This is how we can and have indeed talked until sunrise in the past:

Certainly, and I am honored. Just make sure to point out that I am not advocating that abortion be made illegal. I am just making sure we are all honest with one another, and accept the science that applies. If your position is that there is an absolute "right to life," which begins at conception, for either secularly moral, religious, or Constitutional reasons, any exception involving an otherwise viable fetus is inconsistant, hypocritical, intellectually dishonest, and moral cowardice.

What both sides have to acknowledge, regardless of where the subsequent logic of their beliefs leads them, is that life is a continuum, rather (as I believe I have said before) like sourdough starter, which includes the following unassailable scientific facts:
 
1. Sperm and ova are living cells, but have no viability outside the host system. Regardless of how advanced a support system you build ("I have cloned Gwen Stacy!"), neither will develop into a person on their own. They are, however, "alive."
 
2. The only point currently knowable at which the two become a distinct, unique, thing, is when they fuse at conception. This zygote is also "alive."
 
3. There is no current ability to define, isolate, quantify, show any effects of or to, any thing or energy called the soul. Therefore, discussions of when it enters the body are meaningless. Likewise, any talk of what happens to a soul that enters a body at whatever time only to have that life terminated is sheer speculation.
 
4. Beyond broad timeframes that are the accumulation of medical history, there is no discrete, absolute point of gestation when a fetus becomes viable outside the mother.
 
5. Ceterus paribus, a fertalized ovum will, without any other external influence (other than fuel, water, and oxygyn), develop into a fully viable, biologically independant, sample of Homo sapiens sapiens.
 
These facts lead to unassailable conclusions:
 
1. Terminating a pregnancy ends the life of a unique (not a component of the mother) organism, albiet at an indefinable stage and with, currently, unknown relationship to a soul, if any.
 
2. There is no equivalence between rendering an organism incapable of producing these cells and terminating a pregnancy.
 
3. There is no equivalence between stopping these cells from fusing and terminating a pregnancy.
 
4. To both sides: deal with it. Base your positions on what you consider the most important issues, but deal with those facts and conclusions before you even begin to state an opinion.
 
You don't get to pretend that allowing a pregnancy to come to term will mitigate any of the difficulties that made termination an attractive option.
 
You don't get to pretend life doesn't begin until it's gurgling in a crib just to avoid the moral issue.
 
You don't get to pretend that all people who chose termination are all callous and cavalier about life and the seriousness of the moral questions.
 
You don't get to pretend that some aren't.

[Derrick]

Eh, people die all the time. There's so many other issues in our society that focusing on this one really makes you think where the outrage came from. Chances are, governments were upset white people who could afford the abortions which would let the darkies breed faster. Not to mention our population isn't as large as some competitors, which puts us at a 'disadvantage'. But hey, why should we look beyond the issue and just automatically see a baby getting a needle to the brain.

[IDE]

If sperm is alive then someone should be advocating to stop the senseless murders of millions...no billions...actually there isn't a named number big enough to gauge this holocaust. 

[Derrick]

Nah, it only counts if they're implanted, because after that there's no risk whatsoever of the baby dying. I think antiabortionists just fear death.

[ChelseySuzie]

If sperm is alive then someone should be advocating to stop the senseless murders of millions...no billions...actually there isn't a named number big enough to gauge this holocaust. 

Think of all the babies you've thrown away!

[Derrick]

I throw 2 batches daily.