The Sphere
General Garbage => Tropical Paradise of Hard Shelled Fruits => Topic started by: Derrick on Jul 09, 2008, 05:57:50 PM
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Not to sound like Doug, but the FISA bill passed today is an attack on our freedoms and liberty. I expect this from the Republicans, but the Democrats who voted on this bill are beyond slimeballs. After running against Bush and telling us he's ruining our country, they continue to pass his bills. Regardless if you're a democrat or republican, this is true hypocracy. The forerunner of this hypocracy is Barack Obama, who voted for this while running on an Anti-Bush platform. Included in the link is a link to a blog which explains his rational, which is not rational in any sense.
TRAITORS IN OUR SENATE
Below is a list of the 22 "Democrats" in The Senate that actually voted to pass the "Compromise FISA Bill." They are to be considered traitors!
Each of their votes violated their oath to uphold The Constitution by severely compromising the Fourth Amendment of that critical document.
They are either being bribed, being blackmailed or too stupid. Regardless, we should do all we can to make sure that these "senators" are NEVER re-elected! Contact their local media and post this link in their districts. Let their constituency know how badly they/we are ALL being undermined. Support, or even become, an opposition Democrat.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00168
I cannot vote for Obama in the fall.
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I don't even understand half of what the hell you're ranting about. The only thing you linked to was the roll call list for the bill. Where's the link to the blog? You don't have a link to the page where you got your quote, which I assume was the blog you mentioned. And I looked into the bill itself, and although it's like 100 pages long, it seems to deal with spying on non-Americans. It seems to forbid spying on US citizens either on domestic soil or abroad.
1) may not intentionally target any person known at the time of acquisition to be located in the United States;
(2) may not intentionally target a person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States if the purpose of such acquisition is to target a particular, known person reasonably believed to be in the United States;
(3) may not intentionally target a United States person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States;
(4) may not intentionally acquire any communication as to which the sender and all intended recipients are known at the time of the acquisition to be located in the United States; and
(5) shall be conducted in a manner consistent with the fourth amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
text (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:4:./temp/~c110LThZY9:e1022:)
So I don't know why you're getting your panties in a bunch.
Interestingly enough, both senators to Michigan, Levin and Stabenow, both democrats and very intellegent people, voted nay, as well as Clinton. Kennedy and McCain didn't vote either way.
I wish laws weren't so damn long nowadays or I could read the whole thing. It seems every bill passed nowadays is like 10000 pages long in order to make everyone happy.
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Maybe they should make cliffnotes for us lazy folk.
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Basically the companies who broke the law with only the Bush Administration knowing about it get no punishment. They BROKE the 4th Amendment, and now this just says; "Don't do it again! :)". That is outrageous, they impeach Bush for lying about a BJ, and nothing has been done to Bush, EVEN THOUGH the democrats promised to do this when taking office. I see the party continuing the Bush Administration's powers, not repealing any of the unprecendented control plays they made, and further establishing the president as the true leader of this nation, rather than a part of our leadership.
tl;dr People who broke the law get off while a new law just reiterates the law they broke.
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Is it time to revolt yet? No? Well then I'm going back to work.
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I say it is. I gotta buy me a gun.
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In a nutshell, the telcoms were told by the administration to conduct wire-tapping ostensibly on terrorists. They complied, and now people like the ACLU wants to sue them for it. This bill specifically prevents that. It's essentially an amendment to a bill passed in the Carter administration as a response to the Watergate scandal to regulate domestic intelligence-gathering. My question is this: just what did you expect the telcoms to do? If you allow lawsuits against them, you're advocating a damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't scenario. It's not like they could very well give the government the finger...and if you think otherwise, try it with the IRS next April 15th.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The whole issue of wire-tapping is debateable: you want to find out what terrorist activity might be going down, but you also don't want a slippery slope established for future invasive activity for other purposes. Ben Franklin was attributed to as saying, "those who trade freedom for safety deserve neither," but war-time activity has always been necessarily shady, such as the suspension of habeas corpus during and after the Civil War and the restriction of the press in WWII.
The qualifier, here, is the word I boldfaced in the amendment: "unreasonable" searches and seizures. To some, "unreasonable" is "any", while to another it's "harmfully invasive" and anywhere in-between and beyond. FISA doesn't do anything to spell it out, either, so the debate will (as it should) continue.
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My problem lies not with the bill itself, rather with the political party in charge. When a party claims to fight for something, and then turns around and just allows it. This just repeats a legacy of just crap, and it drives me batshit crazy. Now we're going to have Obama as president, and we will have 4 more years of shit. Why? Because look at what the Dems have done with the Legislature. NO WONDER the Republicans had it for 10 years. The dems will lose control in 2010. x.x
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All we heard in late 2006 was that the war would be ended immediately. What happened? Could it be that the fool in the White House has actually made fools of Capital Hill in the end?
My brother swears up and down that the nation runs better in general with a Democratic president and Republican congress. I don't believe him, but it looks like we'll see.
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In 2010 we will, and it worked since 1996. Obama won't do it though, he's a partisan hack.
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/11/obama.netroots/index.html
Story Highlights
- Sen. Obama votes for surveillance bill he previously opposed
- Bill gives firms ability to get immunity for cooperating with warrantless wiretapping
- Obama opposes immunity but says other changes needed for national security
- Liberal blogs call Obama's vote a "sellout" and "disheartening"
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama's vote for a federal surveillance law that he had previously opposed has sparked a backlash from his online advocates, who had energized his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination.
Sen. Barack Obama said he voted for the surveillance bill because it will help protect the nation.
In October, Obama had vowed to help filibuster an update of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) that gave telecommunication companies that had cooperated with President Bush's warrantless wiretapping program immunity from lawsuits.
After 9/11, Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop, without the mandated warrant from a federal court, on electronic communication involving terrorist suspects.
Critics said Bush's Terrorist Surveillance Program was a violation of civil liberties.
The Senate voted Wednesday on the bill updating FISA -- which had a provision to shield telecommunications companies that had cooperated in the surveillance. Obama joined the 68 other senators who voted to send the bill to the president's desk.
Obama did vote for an amendment offered before the final vote by Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Connecticut, that would have stripped the immunity provisions from the bill, but the amendment failed.
Bush signed the bill into law on Thursday, saying the bill "will help us meet our most solemn responsibility: to stop another attack."
The bill does not grant the telecommunication companies direct immunity, but it does contain a provision that allows a federal judge to dismiss the suits if the companies can present a letter from the government stating that the program was legal.
Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence, testified before Congress that all the companies received such letters.
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Who thought this was a good idea? PC SUCKS!
the cover, published Sunday, shows Obama in the Oval Office dressed in traditional Muslim attire and Michelle with an "Afro" hairstyle carrying a machine gun. An American flag can also be seen burning in the fire place and a picture of Osama bin Llama hangs on the wall.
"The New Yorker may think, as one of their staff explained to us, that their cover is a satirical lampoon of the caricature Senator Obama's right-wing critics have tried to create," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement.
"But most readers will see it as tasteless and offensive. And we agree."
Boohoo. They gonna cry like this when he's president? Still, a dumb idea.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Yet it's still better than calling Michelle "Obama's baby momma".
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That pic is still epic.
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I don't think obama is an auto win. Everyone thought W wouldn't get a second term and surprise surprise...
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Yup. No one thought he'd get 1 year. Obama is a popular movement, representing change. Change isn't a true political platform, and capitalizes on people's ignorance. I can't support that.
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"It's change you can xerox." ~ Hillary Clinton
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Which is why I supported that beautiful woman. *sigh* How does someone get the nomination after losing NY, California, Ohio, Texas, Florida, and Pennsylvania? Self destruct in 4 months :(
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financial meltdown.
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I'll go with Sexism and percieved hope over dynastic fears.
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1. Put Hillary in as Obama's VP.
2. Vote for Obama/Clinton ticket.
3. Assassinate Obama.**
4. ?????????????
5. PROFIT!
**I forgot. We aren't supposed to joke about that. ::)
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I was hoping he'd be popped off in Muslimistan...
Actually, I'm probably gonna vote for the Green Party this year. Cynthia McKinney makes alot more sense. I don't know how Kucinich could support Obama. The Democrats have shit on him, and have isolated him while he impeaches Bush.
I still hope Hillary gets in just to piss the Dems off. They hate her so much, but they need her so badly.
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That is outrageous, they impeach Bush for lying about a BJ
Bush and BJ in the same sentence? JK Rowling herself conld not contrive such fantasy. :laugh:
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BERNIE!
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:wavey:
Sorry; it's not been a fun few months. To Cliffnote it, Eddie's mom's expenses are now more than our mortgage, which is why we've taken company positions with more time away from home. His brother still refuses to help because he has a kid, and yanno, that excuses you from all responsibility On the plus side, the counselor we've been seeing to deal with his crazy family says we have the strongest marriage he's ever seen. :happy:
So sorry, anime babes - no use coming to life. :laugh: